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    PIGTAIL INSIDE THE ELECTRICAL PANEL

    PIGTAIL INSIDE THE ELECTRICAL PANEL

    New postby RICHARD TAN on Thu Mar 26, 2009 9:14 am

    Pigtail inside the electrical panel, solid copprer wire 10ga tie to stranded 8ga with wire nut.
    RICHARD TAN
     
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    Re: PIGTAIL INSIDE THE ELECTRICAL PANEL

    New postby Jerry Peck - Codeman on Thu Mar 26, 2009 9:46 am

    Hi Richard,

    If I am reading this correctly, you are saying 30 gage, not 3/0, right?

    RICHARD TAN wrote:Pigtail inside the electrical panel, solid coppery wire 10ga tie to stranded 30ga with wire nut.


    There is no 30 gage allowed to be used in wiring systems.

    Please clarify so I may address your question with a correct answer.

    Thank you,

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    Re: PIGTAIL INSIDE THE ELECTRICAL PANEL

    New postby RICHARD TAN on Thu Mar 26, 2009 9:37 pm

    Sorry, My bithday was yesterday. Pigtail inside the electrical panel, solid copprer wire 10ga tie to stranded 8ga copper with wire nut.
    RICHARD TAN
     
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    Re: PIGTAIL INSIDE THE ELECTRICAL PANEL

    New postby Jerry Peck - Codeman on Thu Mar 26, 2009 10:11 pm

    Hi Richard,

    Thank you for the clarification and ... Happy Birthday! (a day late)

    I've got some Ideal 452 red wing type wire nuts and Ideal 454 blue wing type wire nuts in my garage which I looked at, then looked on line to clarify their that their ratings have not changed (mine are many years old) and either the 452 red or 454 blue are rated for that, with the 452 red being rated for 1 #8 and 1 or 2 #10, and the 454 blue being rated for 1 #8 and 1 to 4 #10 - solid and/or stranded conductors.

    The Ideal site with those listed - note: place cursor over link and right click, select "Open in New Window" - ( http://www.idealindustries.ca/products/ ... ng-nut.php ) and for their ratings ( http://www.idealindustries.ca/media/pdf ... ations.pdf ).

    Not knowing what manufacturer, type, etc., wire nut you had, it may ... or may not ... have been rated for that.

    The practice itself of splicing on within the panel enclosure is allowed provided that the conductor terminate within the panel enclosure and does not go through the panel enclosure as panels are not tested, listed, or labeled for use as a raceway, which is what doing that would make it.

    From the 2008 NEC (this has not be changed for a long time). (underlining and bold are mine)
    - 312.8 Enclosures for Switches or Overcurrent Devices.
    - - Enclosures for switches or overcurrent devices shall not be used as junction boxes, auxiliary gutters, or raceways for conductors feeding through or tapping off to other switches or overcurrent devices, unless adequate space for this purpose is provided. The conductors shall not fill the wiring space at any cross section to more than 40 percent of the cross-sectional area of the space, and the conductors, splices, and taps shall not fill the wiring space at any cross section to more than 75 percent of the cross-sectional area of that space.

    Based on my discussions with Senior Engineers at UL and reviewing UL Standard 67 to which panelboard enclosures are listed and labeled, no manufacturer has test, listed or labeled an enclosure with space provided for that purpose, thus it is not allowed. The last sentence only applies when (*when* meaning at some time in the future *if* a manufacture tests for that) ... when a manufacturer decides to test, list and label an enclosure with space provided for that purpose. With none having done so.

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    Re: PIGTAIL INSIDE THE ELECTRICAL PANEL

    New postby RICHARD TAN on Thu Mar 26, 2009 11:14 pm

    AC breaker, Can larger stranded wires be connect to smaller solid copper wire and into a breaker?
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    Re: PIGTAIL INSIDE THE ELECTRICAL PANEL

    New postby Jerry Peck - Codeman on Thu Mar 26, 2009 11:30 pm

    Hi Richard,

    Yes, but the breaker rating must match the rating of the smaller conductor.

    I.e., if the #10 comes into the panel and is pigtailed to the #8 which then goes to the breaker, the breaker must match the #10 ampacity rating.

    Except for AC condenser units, in which case the #10 circuit size must match or exceed the minimum circuit ampacity shown on the name plate and the breaker rating must match of be less than the maximum breaker size shown on the name plate.

    The name plate may show a minimum ampacity of 27 amps, the #10 conductor meets that and exceeds that, which is good.

    The name plate may show a maximum breaker size of 40 amps, in which case a 40 amp breaker would meet or be less than the maximum breaker size, which would also be good.

    Thus, if the circuit were a #10 and pigtailed to a #8 which then went to a 40 amp breaker, it would be wrong ... unless it was for an AC and the name plate stated a 40 amp breaker could be used, making the 40 amp breaker on the 30 amp wire acceptable.

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