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    240 Spa Circuit Breaker

    240 Spa Circuit Breaker

    New postby GunnarAlquist on Tue Jul 24, 2018 12:48 pm

    So, I have been looking for a schematic of a 2-pole (240v) GFCI circuit breaker/device. I found one on the Siemens' website and it looks like the neutral/grounded conductor is only used as a part of the detection and not interrupted when the device is "tripped". The reason I ask is:

    A colleague found an exterior spa that was connected via liquidtight flex to a 240 volt double-pole circuit breaker (ok, the breaker was not just hanging there, but was installed in a listed panel - you knew what I meant). A double-pole GFCI circuit breaker is present in the service equipment to protect the entire circuit, but the breaker closest to the spa is a standard double-pole breaker. His question was whether or not the neutral needed to be a part of this disconnect. The answer seems to be very similar to the clarification in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=729&p=1956&hilit=gfci#p1956

    [2013 CEC] 404.2(B) essentially states that you shall not disconnect the grounded conductor unless (exception) all conductors are disconnected simultaneously. 430.105 says pretty much the same thing.

    The Siemens schematic looks like the neutral is not interrupted as a part of the "trip" function. Unfortunately, I do not know the brand of circuit breaker and I have not found any other breaker schematics, only methods of wiring.

    The way I see it is the present setup for the spa is acceptable, unless the (non-GFCI) breaker is not approved/rated to be used as a means of disconnect.
    GunnarAlquist
     
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    Re: 240 Spa Circuit Breaker

    New postby Jerry Peck - Codeman on Tue Jul 24, 2018 1:20 pm

    GunnarAlquist wrote:The way I see it is the present setup for the spa is acceptable, unless the (non-GFCI) breaker is not approved/rated to be used as a means of disconnect.


    Gunnar,

    See NEC 404.11, not sure if the CEC is the same, but likely is.

    The switching duty rated you are referring to is for 240.83(D) for use with fluorescent lighting and HID lighting.

    Yes, don't switch the grounded conductor (neutral) unless all ... ALL ... all conductors (except the equipment grounding conductor) are simultaneously disconnected.
    Jerry Peck - CodeMan
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    Re: 240 Spa Circuit Breaker

    New postby GunnarAlquist on Tue Jul 24, 2018 4:58 pm

    Hi Jerry,

    Thank you. Yes, the NEC and CEC sections are the same and that was largely what I was looking for. I hadn't realized the breaker as switch was limited to specific lighting. For some reason, I thought it covered more applications.

    Included is the one schematic that I found that shows the breaker does not interrupt neutral. I was unable to find any others.
    You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
    Last edited by GunnarAlquist on Tue Jul 24, 2018 5:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.
    Reason: Added to comment
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    Re: 240 Spa Circuit Breaker

    New postby Jerry Peck - Codeman on Tue Jul 24, 2018 6:10 pm

    GunnarAlquist wrote:I hadn't realized the breaker as switch was limited to specific lighting. For some reason, I thought it covered more applications.


    The breaker as switch isn't limited to specific lighting - however, when a breaker is used as a switch for such specific lighting, then the breaker needs to be rated for that use - SWR (switching duty rated - may be used for switching fluorescent lighting) or HID (High Intensity Discharge switching duty rated - may be used for switching either HID or fluorescent lighting), otherwise, for use as a switch, a breaker does not need a special switch rating.

    No switching duty rating for a breaker (not SWR or HID) and a breaker is not allowed to be used as a switch for those lighting types.

    Otherwise, no switching duty rating is required for a breaker to be used as a switch.
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